Gramaton wrote:
I know what WoW is too. I know what it used to be. I also know what TSW is right now.

I haven't subbed to WoW in more than a year, but it still a better running MMO than SWTOR OR TSW. I am talking features WORKING, not amount of content, either.

MMO_Doubter wrote:
Serious question, because I'm curious, have you played any other MMO besides WoW for more than the first month or two? I know you never played swg so I wonder where your passion for MMOs come from. Also, as far as I know, the only major feature not working now, but will be in the first patch scheduled for 31 July, is the AH. Most of the quest bugs seem to have been fixed, same with the chat problems. I've done over 130 quests so far and 4 of them have been bugged, and they've all been fixed and I've been able to complete them. Remind me again what exactly it is that isn't working?

Now it makes sense, hah the big mmo sceptic actually a product from the wow generation.


To get more on topic, the people who come from certain themeparks due get annoyed by how questing works and is done in TSW, idem with the combat.

As for combat it takes the training wheels off and puts you into a freeform model where there are no classes or guidelines to show you the way.

As for questing i still see a person now and then moaning a quest is bugged, while everyone around them is able to progress and complete, simply due to how accustomed they have become to how it's done elsewhere and missing tips and clues being given out in also the dialogue.

A good example of this is what i see in egypt "why doesn't this stupid staff put out these bush fires!!??!" the answer: You don't.

It's the same type of reaction people get from point n click adventure games, when you get stuck you either go apeshit and blame the game or find away around or look up a guide and tap yourself on the back.

And yes very few quests are bugged and even less now, why? go check out guides as they even listed which ones could bug out and on all of solomon island you had perhaps 5. Taking note that each mission in TSW counts for several quests due to how they are setup up and are actually tiered, where you get an automatic follow up.

In any case the game is getting mixed reviews by those who get it and those who don't and they are entitled to their opinion, i don't need another wow clone being populair and being there for every mmo gamer easy accesible plenty of those out there.

I'm happy with my ninche mmo, same as people in EVE are happy with theirs.

I subbed to WoW for about 6 years (off and on).

I subbed to WH Online for a year from release. Played another year on free trial.

As bad as WoW has gotten - things work in it. WHich is why i still go back to play the free starter version from time to time - when I am sick of trying deal with broken shit in other MMOs.

Very glad to hear TSW is getting better. I have no special animosity toward FC, and wish TSW was a great MMO. It is still way too solo-oriented, and that is a plague common to recent MMOs. Fuck that solo-friendly shit.

I would LOVE to be able to Scully & Mulder through the investigation quests. FC really dropped the ball making them solo instances.

Just as the lack of vehicles sucks ass. Not to mention the lack of a map in Agartha.

I bought up these points before, but am reminding those who accuse me of baseless complaining.

Recent releases can't even get the damned AH right.

AcidBaron wrote:
Yeah, guess I was 'spoiled' by starting with an MMO where shit actually fucking works.

"too much solo shit"

I hope you can see the humor in that statement being mostly a WoW mmo player.
If you can't, i'll simply say that upon starting in WoW it was actually a surprising easy mmo for me, leveling wise as i didn't even needed groups for those team quests.




You needed a map in argartha? really a place what is basically a one way tunnel system considering how long you played and never got past solomon island.

I hope you can understand that a system that upon entry has 3 portals back to the main cities, one that takes you up another level to the elite and nightmare modes and one that sets you off in an almost straight line to each zone argartha portal once unlocked in the same order you normally get to those zones.

I find it hard to believe anyone their sense of direction is that bad, as it's near impossible to get lost as you can easly back track, especially considering you didn't even end up in "that wrong part of argartha" linked to your faction missions.
Where you actually have to get off the tracks to find your way so to speak.


Solo instances have been mentioned and adressed before.
Vehicles idem, and regards to your scully and mulder reference i did finished some investigation quests with friends of mine over TS.
If quests don't give credit to your team mates for doing something then something is amiss as it should.

Actually the developer team has been very fortcoming regards to issues and more then your standard "we are looking into it replies aswel" such as i posted the whole link to why the chat system issues came up post launch and why it was hard to resolve and what still isn't resolved.
Idem for feedback given and even simply stating technical limitations.

What in my opinion is a beter way then nodding yes on every request.



It's funny that you mention things like WoW being bug free it isn't and was far from on release facing several major patches like all mmo's *gasp*. I guess you didn't play it from the US launch but later. It's actually so that after every content patch in wow several hotfix patches always followed up to fix the uncaught bugs. (despite some of those updates you know taking 6 to 9 months to get there and not having that much content)


Not trying to sound like an elitist asshole here, but if your introduction was WoW, especially when it was running for a while and that's your majority of mmo experience. I Understand where you are coming from but at the same time it also makes me paint context around your opinion.



What i do find odd is bugs are a major hinderance for you, especially in quests. Yet you subbed to WHO for a year. A game so riddled with quest bugs that two years after release it was still very very bad. I had to use a quest database to check if bugs were working or not, majority of the player feedback on those were a year old and still valid.

Or perhaps that's where this whole lack of faith comes from in new projects considering the mismanagement of WHO.

MMO_Doubter wrote:
It didn't start that way. I was there on day 1. But hey, expecting every new MMO to work as well and have as much stuff as one thats been around for 8 years(the biggest MMO of all time too) is totally reasonable.

Well here's where the rubber meets the road on what is reasonable. It is what the consumer expects. Fairly or unfairly (and it is unfair in my mind). The consumers of MMOs, by and large, have had experience in WoW and, by and large, are looking for something BETTER. Not equivalent, but better.

Now, I understand that TSW is not trying to out-WoW WoW. They are trying to differentiate themselves, and I applaud Funcom for taking a different approach. But, some level of polish is expected. For MMO_D it isn't there, I don't understand why the need to pile on about it.

For me, the game, not any particular aspect of it, felt kind of "blah" in beta, so I haven't chosen to purchase it. I am keeping an eye on conversations, like this one, to see what people think about it.

Temploiter wrote:
I just find it funny how much he rails on about how TSW (and other MMOs) is too much of a single player game...yet...he played, and enjoyed, WoW for 6+ years, and apart from WAR, WoW is the only MMO he's played for any length of time. I've been playing WoW off and on since its release and it has redefined the single player experience for MMOs and made it more prevalent than ever. Even in the early days, or Vanilla, WoW was extremely single player friendly.

Gramaton wrote:
You and AB are putting words in my mouth. I never said I <em>enjoyed </em>WoW for 6 years. There is a lot of inertia involved in sticking with an MMO even after you're not really having fun anymore.

One of the reasons I quit was the ever-increasing solo-orientation of the game play.

I compare TSW to WoW in terms of polish - not the solo-orientation. You are right that WoW is very solo-orieted. Ask any regular here what I think of a solo focus in an MMO. Regardless of which particular MMO it is. I am not singling out TSW in that regard.

As for TSW - it is not group-friendly. How do I know whether I have the skills/gear for a particular dungeon? Is there a LFD tool? The investigations are the most interesting of the quests - but are done often in a single player instance (even worse than SWTOR's class instances).

ANY mechanic in an MMO which discourages grouping is a BAD DESIGN, period. Accommodating solo play is almost as bad, because the inherent logistics of grouping makes it inconvenient. The easier it is to solo level, the harder it will be to find others to group with.